Liquid 重新质押继续攀升，突破 100 亿美元

根据 DeFiLlama 的数据，流动性重新抵押 (LRT) 趋势继续强劲，LRT 协议锁定的总价值 (TVL) 超过 100 亿美元。 Ether.fi 是最大的轻轨服务公司，管理着近 39 亿美元的资产，处于领先地位。联合创始人 Rok Kopp 分享了对该项目第二个空投季的见解、计划将原生质押整合到 L2 网络中，以及 Ether.fi 的未来发展，包括推出 Ether.fi Liquid 和 Ether.fi Cash。科普强调，行业需要通过简化词汇和开发实际用例来提高可访问性，以吸引下一波用户。

The liquid restaking (LRT) trend continues to gain momentum. According to DeFiLlama, at the time of writing, the amount of liquidity trapped in the smart contract of the segments protocols has already exceeded $10 billion.

流动性重新抵押（LRT）趋势继续增强。据 DeFiLlama 称，截至撰写本文时，Segment 协议智能合约中滞留的流动性金额已超过 100 亿美元。

The largest LRT service is Ether.fi, with nearly $3.9 billion in assets under management.  Incrypted spoke with project co-founder Rok Kopp. We talked about the second season of airdrop and the role of the ETHFI token, plans to integrate native staking into L2 networks, as well as the future development of the product.

Liquid Restake (LRT)：以太坊生态系统的新趋势 06.03.202416 мин 3562читать 最大的 LRT 服务是 Ether.fi，管理着近 39 亿美元的资产。 Incrypted 采访了项目联合创始人 Rok Kopp。我们讨论了空投的第二季和 ETHFI 代币的作用，计划将原生 Stake 整合到 L2 网络中，以及产品的未来发展。

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Let’s start at the beginning – your way into crypto. So you had a lot of different executive positions in different non-crypto companies. And now you’ve started a successful crypto project. Why crypto and why now? 

让我们从头开始——您进入加密货币的方式。所以你在不同的非加密公司担任过很多不同的高管职位。现在您已经开始了一个成功的加密项目。为什么选择加密货币？为什么是现在？

I spent 15 years building various software companies and their go-to-market strategies. I had a great run there. Mike [Silagadze], who’s my co-founder and the CEO of Ether.fi, and I worked together at a company he started out of college called Top Hat. That’s kind of how we met. 

我花了 15 年的时间建立了各种软件公司并制定了他们的上市策略。我在那里跑得很好。 Mike [Silagadze] 是我的联合创始人兼 Ether.fi 的首席执行官，我和他在大学毕业后创办的一家名为 Top Hat 的公司一起工作。我们就是这样认识的。

Actually, that was when I was first introduced to crypto, around 2012. The developers were all around the computer, I think they were on Hacker News or something, reading about Bitcoin. A couple of them sent a PayPal transaction and got some bitcoin back. That was the first time I heard about it, so I hung around in that space a little bit, not really doing much with it because my focus was on software. 

实际上，那是我第一次接触加密货币的时候，大约是 2012 年。开发人员都在计算机周围，我想他们在黑客新闻或其他什么网站上阅读有关比特币的内容。他们中的一些人发送了一笔 PayPal 交易并拿回了一些比特币。那是我第一次听说它，所以我在那个领域闲逛了一会儿，并没有真正做太多事情，因为我的重点是软件。

Then I got really involved during the ‘DeFi summer’, which was a big step into it for me. Specifically, I think the opportunity and the potential impact that DeFi can have on the world is the biggest thing that I see. 

然后我在“DeFi 夏季”期间真正参与其中，这对我来说是迈出的一大步。具体来说，我认为 DeFi 对世界的机会和潜在影响是我看到的最大的事情。

What initially got me into crypto was the casino aspect; it is the biggest casino in the world, it never sleeps. But then when I started to see some of these utilities like DeFi and then stablecoins coming on board and really getting involved in the Ethereum ecosystem, that’s when things really took off for me. That’s how I got into crypto and started moving in space.

最初让我进入加密货币的是赌场方面；它是世界上最大的赌场，它不夜城。但后来，当我开始看到一些实用程序（例如 DeFi 和稳定币）出现并真正参与以太坊生态系统时，我的事业才真正开始腾飞。这就是我进入加密货币并开始进入太空的方式。

There’s a follow-up question about the early days of Bitcoin. Did you manage to keep it from then on? At least one Bitcoin or some?

还有一个关于比特币早期的后续问题。从那时起你就设法保留它了吗？至少一个或一些比特币？

The answer is no. Yeah, no life-changing money was made from early crypto purchases by anyone on the team, actually.

答案是不。是的，实际上，团队中的任何人都没有从早期购买加密货币中赚到改变生活的钱。

So, you got into crypto through ‘DeFi summer’. How have you interacted with cryptocurrency?

所以，你是通过“DeFi 夏天”进入加密货币领域的。您如何与加密货币互动？

I just participated in a lot of different things. I played around a lot on Uniswap, which was probably my first onboarding into it. 

我只是参与了很多不同的事情。我在 Uniswap 上玩了很多，这可能是我第一次接触它。

And if I think about the evolution and where that led, we actually started and got into the space with a hedge fund. It was just the easiest way to get into the space. So that’s what we did.

如果我考虑一下演变及其发展方向，我们实际上是从对冲基金开始并进入这个领域的。这只是进入这个空间的最简单的方法。这就是我们所做的。

Fast forward to last year, the FTX collapse happened, and the next thing we did was look at the counterparty risk that was in the space. We thought there was a lot of counterparty risk with Lido. That’s how and why we started building Ether.fi. 

时间快进到去年，FTX 崩溃了，我们接下来做的就是研究该领域的交易对手风险。我们认为丽都存在很大的交易对手风险。这就是我们开始构建 Ether.fi 的方式和原因。

It was really as a solution to Lido, an alternative to Lido. Liquid staking was a crowded space at the time, and the biggest thing we announced was that we were going to build with EigenLayer. That was after we met Sreeram Kannan [founder of EigenLayer] at ETH Denver last year in February, so that came out in March that we were going to build with EigenLayer, and that was before the whole EigenLayer mania started. 

它实际上是作为丽都的解决方案，丽都的替代方案。当时，流动性质押是一个拥挤的领域，我们宣布的最重要的事情是我们将使用 EigenLayer 进行构建。那是在去年 2 月份我们在 ETH Denver 见到 Sreeram Kannan（EigenLayer 的创始人）之后，所以我们在 3 月份就宣布我们将使用 EigenLayer 进行构建，而那是在整个 EigenLayer 热潮开始之前。

We had started with the hedge fund, one of which was an ETH staking fund, and we were staking with Lido, but we realized that we weren’t happy with the counterparty risk. That’s when we started to build and launch Ether.fi.

我们从对冲基金开始，其中之一是 ETH 质押基金，我们在 Lido 进行质押，但我们意识到我们对交易对手风险并不满意。从那时起，我们开始构建并启动 Ether.fi。

EigenLayer, as you mentioned, has been around for a while, and now, as you said, there’s EigenLayer mania. Why now? Why is there such a huge amount of projects and hype about restaking and stuff like that? Why is now the perfect time for it?

正如您提到的，EigenLayer 已经存在了一段时间，现在，正如您所说，出现了 EigenLayer 狂热。为什么现在？为什么会有如此大量的项目和关于重新抵押之类的事情的炒作？为什么现在是最佳时机？

Yeah, it was certainly the perfect storm of things, and I don’t have a good answer as to why. 

是的，这确实是一场完美的风暴，但我没有一个很好的答案来解释为什么。

I would say the EigenLayer team is super impressive. We obviously work very closely with them. And from the academic side of things, they’re thinking through all the cases. EigenLayer is just so well thought out and put together. And it’s just this natural evolution of staking.

我想说 EigenLayer 团队非常令人印象深刻。显然我们与他们合作非常密切。从学术的角度来看，他们正在思考所有的案例。 EigenLayer 经过深思熟虑并组合在一起。这就是质押的自然演变。

Actually, one of the ways I kind of explain this is by putting it in traditional finance terms. So, you have a central bank and the central bank is going to give out T-bills, which is like staking. You put your cash in there, and in return, I’ll give you some cash on top of that. And then restaking is basically like corporate bonds, right? It’s the next evolution of this. 

实际上，我解释这一点的方法之一是将其放在传统金融术语中。所以，你有一个中央银行，中央银行将发行国库券，这就像质押一样。你把现金存进去，作为回报，我会给你一些现金。那么重新抵押基本上就像公司债券一样，对吗？这是它的下一个演变。

So, one of the challenges that we face as an industry in bringing the next wave of people on board is to put things in terms that people can understand. So, the concept of restaking, and what restaking is, is basically corporate bonds. 

因此，作为一个行业，我们在吸引下一波人加入时面临的挑战之一是以人们可以理解的方式表达事物。所以，重新抵押的概念，以及什么是重新抵押，基本上就是公司债券。

The point mania just took off, right? And so, the hype around EigenLayer, the potential airdrop that it could have in terms of wealth creation, has really gotten people into it. And there’s just so much positive momentum behind it, and the team has done a great job executing. But right now, restaking is just point accumulation, right? It is not online yet. I think sometime in Q2 it should be online and restaking will actually start to happen. 

积分热潮刚刚兴起，对吗？因此，围绕 EigenLayer 的炒作，以及它在创造财富方面可能带来的潜在空投，确实让人们投入其中。它背后有如此多的积极动力，而且团队执行得非常出色。但现在，重新投注只是积分，对吗？它还没有上线。我认为在第二季度的某个时候，它应该上线，并且重新抵押实际上会开始发生。

So, super excited about that and to see what it does. And the EigenLayer team has been working hard to get to mainnet, and I think that will be coming in the next couple of months here. So, yeah, super excited to see where it goes. But I guess just to answer the question, again, it’s like, I don’t know why now. I just think it’s a super great idea from Sreeram and the team, and the potential impact restaking has on the Ethereum ecosystem could be the biggest thing since Ethereum.

所以，对此非常兴奋并想看看它的作用。 EigenLayer 团队一直在努力进入主网，我认为这将在接下来的几个月内实现。所以，是的，我非常兴奋地想看看它会走向何方。但我想只是为了回答这个问题，再说一遍，我现在不知道为什么。我只是认为这是 Sreeram 和团队的一个超级好主意，重新抵押对以太坊生态系统的潜在影响可能是自以太坊以来最大的事情。

Sounds impressive. You mentioned the point system, and you chose the point system. This model is very popular now. Why is that?

听起来令人印象深刻。你提到了积分制度，你也选择了积分制度。这种模式现在很流行。这是为什么？

I think point systems are good because you can tell users what you want them to do. Depending on how you want to grow, what you’re trying to do, whether it’s DEX liquidity or integrating with a particular DeFi protocol, you can incentivize and make very clear to your users what’s important to you.

我认为积分系统很好，因为你可以告诉用户你想让他们做什么。根据您想要发展的方式、想要做什么，无论是 DEX 流动性还是与特定 DeFi 协议集成，您都可以激励用户并向用户明确什么对您来说很重要。

I actually think from a user perspective, points are super valuable. They’re annoying, but they’re also super valuable. You can say, “Hey, there are these things that the protocol thinks are good. So if I’m a good participant, I’ll get more points.” And that’s kind of how it is. People have taken points in a variety of different ways, and it’s interesting to see how that all plays out. But I think there’s an advantage to points in that you can be very explicit and direct with users about what’s valuable to you as a protocol.

其实我觉得从用户的角度来说，积分是非常有价值的。它们很烦人，但也非常有价值。你可以说，“嘿，协议认为有些东西是好的。所以如果我是一个好的参与者，我会得到更多的分数。”事情就是这样。人们以各种不同的方式获得积分，看看这一切如何进行是很有趣的。但我认为点的一个优点是你可以非常明确和直接地告诉用户什么对你作为一个协议有价值。

You recently launched the ETHFI. With token features and future capabilities, what would you like to see more of in the future?

您最近推出了 ETHFI。有了代币的特性和未来的能力，您希望未来看到更多什么？

ETHFI will have a role in governance – people will be able to vote with their tokens. We are bringing in delegates now who will be able to help with that process as well. The long-term focus there’s a couple of different things that we’re going to do. We’re also going to have a value accrual mechanism. So protocol revenue will come back to the token and accrue to the token.

ETHFI 将在治理中发挥作用——人们将能够用他们的代币进行投票。我们现在正在邀请代表，他们也将能够帮助完成这一过程。长期关注我们要做几件不同的事情。我们还将有一个价值累积机制。因此，协议收入将回到代币并累积到代币中。

The first proposal will come out in the next few weeks that people will be able to vote on with their ETHFI token. I think as we move towards decentralization getting that first vote up there is super important.

第一个提案将在未来几周内发布，人们将能够使用他们的 ETHFI 代币进行投票。我认为，当我们走向权力下放时，获得第一次投票是非常重要的。

The value accrual mechanism like Balancer uses like this vote escrow model and so we’ll be looking at doing some things like that as well. I think things will evolve. The role of the token and stuff will evolve over time but those are the first things that we have in mind.

像 Balancer 这样的价值累积机制使用了类似的投票托管模型，所以我们也会考虑做一些类似的事情。我认为事情会发展。代币和其他东西的作用会随着时间的推移而演变，但这些是我们首先想到的。

What about DAO? How does this model work in real life? What are its advantages and disadvantages?

那么DAO呢？这个模型在现实生活中如何运作？它的优点和缺点是什么？

I think it’s very challenging to be a DAO early on, because the more decentralized you get, the harder it is to move fast when you’re small and trying to compete. You have to be scrappy and you have to be fast.

我认为早期成为 DAO 非常具有挑战性，因为你越去中心化，当你规模较小并试图竞争时，就越难快速行动。你必须斗志旺盛，而且速度要快。

We have a process where we’re moving toward decentralization over the years until we get to a point where we’re fully decentralized. And we’re super excited to get to that point. But we know it’s a journey, right? We’re not going to get there on day one. When you’re small, you want to make sure that you can make decisions on your own. 

我们有一个流程，多年来我们一直在朝着去中心化的方向发展，直到我们达到完全去中心化的地步。我们非常高兴能够达到这一点。但我们知道这是一段旅程，对吗？我们不会在第一天就到达那里。当你还小的时候，你想确保你可以自己做决定。

Look at any DAO that’s out there and what’s going on. I think it’s super important to have ETHFI token holders in the community who can generally help guide where you’re going, but they’re also not involved in the day-to-day operations of the company.

看看现有的 DAO 以及正在发生的事情。我认为社区中拥有 ETHFI 代币持有者非常重要，他们通常可以帮助指导您的前进方向，但他们也不参与公司的日常运营。

It’s super important to figure out the big overarching themes and directions that we’re going in. And I think that’s a really great thing to lean on the community for. The tactics and how that’s executed and done on a day-to-day basis, I think that’s important for the core team to think through and execute. So we’re going to work on that. Over time, we’ll get to a fully decentralized organization, but it’s going to take time to get there. 

弄清楚我们要进入的总体主题和方向非常重要。我认为依靠社区是一件非常好的事情。我认为，战术以及如何在日常基础上执行和完成，这对于核心团队的思考和执行非常重要。所以我们将致力于此。随着时间的推移，我们将建立一个完全去中心化的组织，但这需要时间。

Ether.fi leads the LRT protocols in terms of TVL. How did you get there? What are your advantages over your competitors and who are they?

Ether.fi 在 TVL 方面领先于 LRT 协议。你是怎么到达那里的？与竞争对手相比，您的优势是什么？他们是谁？

I think everybody is still competing against Lido. There’s this term liquid restaking and we’re the leader in liquid restaking. I think staking is just going to turn into restaking. Restaking is the natural extension of that. Basically there’s ETH that’s staked. I think everything will be restaked at some point. 

我认为每个人仍在与丽都竞争。有“流动性重新抵押”这个术语，我们是流动性重新抵押的领导者。我认为质押将会变成重新质押。重新抵押是其自然延伸。基本上有 ETH 被质押。我认为一切都会在某个时候重新进行。

I think for the first time in some time Lido’s market dominance is below 30%. And a huge credit is just to the liquid restaking space and what happened with that. We started building last March, we always built with EigenLayer in mind, so we built things the right way, like we were building from the ground up.

我认为丽都的市场主导地位一段时间以来首次低于 30%。一个巨大的功劳就是流动性重新抵押空间以及随之而来的事情。我们从去年三月开始构建，我们总是考虑到 EigenLayer，所以我们以正确的方式构建东西，就像我们从头开始构建一样。

We built our own code. We thought through things. We made sure there was decentralization. We made sure it was non-custodial. Keeping those ethos when you’re building is a challenge. Especially when the bull market starts, you’re trying to get to market faster and you’re doing different things.

我们构建了自己的代码。我们仔细考虑了事情。我们确保权力下放。我们确保它是非监禁的。在构建过程中保持这些精神是一项挑战。尤其是当牛市开始时，你会试图更快地进入市场，并且会做不同的事情。

So we are native ETH that is restaked. And what I mean by that is the ETH that comes into Ether.fi. If you go to Ether.fi and you put your ETH in, you get ETH in return. We take that ETH and we put that into the Beacon Chain. Instead of putting a liquid staking token into the restaking, we put that in the Beacon Chain and we point that withdrawal address to the EigenPods instead of taking a stETH wrapper and pointing those at the EigenPods.

所以我们是重新质押的原生 ETH。我的意思是进入 Ether.fi 的 ETH。如果您访问 Ether.fi 并投入 ETH，您将获得 ETH 作为回报。我们将 ETH 放入信标链中。我们没有将流动性质押代币放入重新质押中，而是将其放入信标链中，并将提款地址指向 EigenPods，而不是采用 stETH 包装器并将其指向 EigenPods。

That was really important to us. And that is one of the big differentiators. The only people doing that in the space right now are us, Renzo, and Swell. So I think natively restaked ETH is a huge competitive advantage. 

这对我们来说非常重要。这是最大的区别之一。目前在这个领域中唯一这样做的人是我们、Renzo 和 Swell。所以我认为原生重新抵押 ETH 是一个巨大的竞争优势。

We were really lucky with the timing. We launched, we basically spent the summer building, we launched in October and then really came out in November and things have just been like growth since then, for 90 days straight we were growing five to ten percent a day and when you do that you just start to compound really quickly so we had 20,000 [ETH] that we started with and just kind of went from there. 

我们的时机真的很幸运。我们推出了，我们基本上花了整个夏天的时间来建设，我们在 10 月份推出，然后在 11 月份真正推出，从那时起，事情就像增长一样，连续 90 天，我们每天增长 5% 到 10%，当你这样做时，你就会我们开始快速复利，所以我们一开始就有 20,000 [ETH]，然后就从那里开始了。

I also think we’re a trusted brand. Our team is fully doxed. We’ve built and run companies before. And so like people aren’t worried that there’s going to be a rug or something. We’ve been very open and upfront when there are challenges, we have community calls, we address them, and we kind of go through them. I think that has helped build a lot of trust. We see ourselves first and foremost as a steward of capital. Like we want to protect people’s ETH first and foremost. 

我还认为我们是一个值得信赖的品牌。我们的团队已经完全被人肉搜索了。我们以前曾建立和经营过公司。所以人们并不担心会有地毯或其他东西。当遇到挑战时，我们一直非常开放和坦率，我们接到社区电话，我们解决这些问题，并且我们会解决它们。我认为这有助于建立很多信任。我们首先将自己视为资本的管理者。就像我们首先要保护人们的 ETH 一样。

And that’s what we’re in this business for. We want to get rewards on top of that and we want to make sure that your ETH becomes more ETH, but we want to make sure that we’re safe first and foremost. That’s why we do things. That’s why we built it in a non-custodial way. That’s why we’re so focused on decentralization.

这就是我们从事这个行业的目的。除此之外，我们希望获得奖励，我们希望确保您的 ETH 变得更多 ETH，但我们首先要确保我们的安全。这就是我们做事的原因。这就是我们以非托管方式构建它的原因。这就是为什么我们如此关注去中心化。

So that’s kind of the beginning. Our depth of DeFi integration is super important. If you go to EigenLayer, you can put your 32 ETH in there, but then you give up your composability. In crypto, we love to stake. We love to be degens. And so we want utility with it.

这就是开始。我们 DeFi 集成的深度非常重要。如果你去 EigenLayer，你可以把你的 32 ETH 放在那里，但随后你就放弃了你的可组合性。在加密货币领域，我们喜欢进行质押。我们喜欢成为堕落者。所以我们想要它的实用性。

So the fact that you’re able to restake and then also go play around in DeFi, that was the biggest competitive advantage we had. EigenLayer’s narrative was taking off. People were hot on restaking. Their TVL was growing a lot. And it was with this native ETH. We gave the first opportunity where people could actually restake their ETH and then still continue to play in DeFi.

因此，事实上，你可以重新抵押，然后也可以去 DeFi 玩，这是我们最大的竞争优势。 EigenLayer 的故事正在起飞。人们热衷于重新尝试。他们的 TVL 增长了很多。就是用这个原生的 ETH。我们提供了第一个机会，让人们可以真正重新抵押他们的 ETH，然后仍然继续玩 DeFi。

The Pendle pool that launched in December, we were the first pool on Pendle with the liquid restaking market. Obviously, it’s become super hot since then. The DeFi integrations and the depth of the DeFi integrations are important. 

Pendle 矿池于 12 月推出，我们是 Pendle 上第一个具有流动性重新抵押市场的矿池。显然，从那时起它就变得非常热门。 DeFi 集成和 DeFi 集成的深度很重要。

The next step for us is also to get to L2s. It’s so hard to transact on L1, it’s so expensive. So we’re going to have a huge push to get to L2s. We’re working with LayerZero. We’re going to be on all the L2s. There is no L2 that we don’t want to be on. So we’re going to work on getting deployed on all those L2s. That’s kind of the next step as far as the recap space and where we’re at.

我们的下一步也是进入 L2。 L1 上的交易太难了，而且太贵了。因此，我们将大力推动 L2 的发展。我们正在与 LayerZero 合作。我们将在所有 L2 上。没有我们不想进入的 L2。因此，我们将致力于在所有这些 L2 上进行部署。就回顾空间和我们所处的位置而言，这就是下一步。

Maybe you want to deploy to other L1s as well? 

也许您还想部署到其他 L1？

We are super focused on Ethereum right now. I think there’s some interesting stuff going on, like EVM compatible L1s. And you can just copy and paste code.

我们现在非常关注以太坊。我认为正在发生一些有趣的事情，例如 EVM 兼容的 L1。您只需复制并粘贴代码即可。

And so that’s something we might look at. But right now the majority of economic activity is happening on Ethereum. That’s where we’re focused and we’re focused on building there. Right now there’s so much to do. There’s tons of cool L2s that are coming out so we’re super excited to work with a bunch of those L2s. Obviously the first L2s – Arbitrum, Optimism, Base but also a lot of fun other L2s coming out. Like Mode, super bullish on what Mode is doing. 

这就是我们可能会考虑的事情。但目前大部分经济活动都发生在以太坊上。这就是我们关注的重点，我们也致力于在那里进行建设。现在有很多事情要做。有大量很酷的 L2 即将问世，所以我们非常高兴能与其中的一些 L2 合作。显然是第一个 L2 – Arbitrum、Optimism、Base，但也出现了很多有趣的其他 L2。和 Mode 一样，非常看好 Mode 正在做的事情。

So it’s really excited about that. The L2 strategy and the DeFi strategy – basically we never want people to have to make a decision whether or not to if they love a protocol. We want eETH to be there. We don’t want them to be like “Hey I love this protocol but eETH is not there and stETH is.” We want eETH to be everywhere. Lido did a really good job with that.

所以它真的很兴奋。 L2 策略和 DeFi 策略——基本上我们从不希望人们必须做出是否喜欢某个协议的决定。我们希望 eETH 能够存在。我们不希望他们说“嘿，我喜欢这个协议，但 eETH 不存在，而 stETH 存在。”我们希望 eETH 无处不在。 Lido 在这方面做得非常好。

Are you saying that Ether.fi will introduce native staking among all L2s? Sounds impressive.

您是说 Ether.fi 将在所有 L2 之间引入原生质押吗？听起来令人印象深刻。

That is the goal. We’re going to enable native staking on all of them. That’s something we’re super focused on. I just think it’s going to be a really good user experience. So yeah, we are working with LayerZero on that and we should have native staking on all of these chains.

这就是目标。我们将在所有这些上启用原生质押。这是我们非常关注的事情。我只是认为这将是一个非常好的用户体验。所以，是的，我们正在与 LayerZero 合作解决这个问题，我们应该在所有这些链上进行原生质押。

We’re talking a lot about the EigenLayer and how this whole industry is literally built on top of it. What will change once the EigenLayer is fully launched?

我们谈论了很多关于 EigenLayer 以及整个行业如何构建在其之上的内容。 EigenLayer全面上线后会发生什么变化？

I think the whole world changes! You actually start to get to see the restaking rewards and what those will actually be. And so the approach that we’ve taken is we work or identify AVS that we think are building really good projects and we commit capital to them to build on top of us. And so we commit ETH in return, they commit some kind of reward for the block space.

我觉得整个世界都变了！您实际上开始看到重新抵押的奖励以及这些奖励实际上是什么。因此，我们采取的方法是，我们工作或确定我们认为正在构建真正优秀项目的 AVS，并向它们投入资金，让它们在我们的基础上进行构建。因此，我们承诺 ETH 作为回报，他们为区块空间承诺某种奖励。

And so we’ve announced partnerships with Omni Network, Ethos, Lagrange Labs. There’s five or six that we’ve announced so far and we’re going to announce more. So we’re really excited about the building that’s going on there

因此，我们宣布与 Omni Network、Ethos、Lagrange Labs 建立合作伙伴关系。到目前为止，我们已经宣布了五六个，我们还将宣布更多。所以我们对那里正在建设的建筑感到非常兴奋

I think everyone in the ecosystem is excited to see ‘points mania’ come to an end. Like, obviously it’s been great and super fun to follow and it’s been beneficial to a lot of people. We’re excited to get to the next, real level of adoption.

我认为生态系统中的每个人都很高兴看到“积分狂热”的结束。就像，显然它很棒而且超级有趣，而且对很多人都有好处。我们很高兴能够达到下一个真正的采用水平。

That’s where the rubber kind of hits the road. Like you actually see what all these mania points have been about when restaking comes live. So. Will the capital stay? Will it flee? Will more capital come in? I actually think it’s a huge opportunity to get more institutional capital in.

这就是橡胶上路的地方。就像您在重试上线时真正看到所有这些狂热点是什么一样。所以。首都会留下来吗？它会逃跑吗？会有更多资本进来吗？事实上，我认为这是获得更多机构资本的巨大机会。

One of the things we’re focused on at Ether.fi is getting the next 20 million wallets into crypto. And we want to be a big part of that, and reward is obviously a huge way to do that. And so we feel like the redemption for that is going to be massive. Institutions in general star for yield. If they can understand where the yield is coming from, that puts them in a really good position. So, yeah, that’s kind of the evolution of restaking and how I think it’s going to go. So it’s going to be very, very fun to watch over the next few weeks.

我们在 Ether.fi 关注的事情之一是让接下来的 2000 万个钱包进入加密货币领域。我们希望成为其中的重要组成部分，而奖励显然是实现这一目标的一个重要方式。所以我们觉得对此的救赎将是巨大的。机构普遍以收益率为明星。如果他们能够了解收益从何而来，那么他们就处于一个非常有利的位置。所以，是的，这就是重新赌注的演变以及我认为它将会如何发展。所以在接下来的几周里观看将会非常非常有趣。

This is a good time to ask you for some insights. Maybe some future plans. And, of course, the second wave of airdrop.

现在是向您询问一些见解的好时机。也许是一些未来的计划。当然，还有第二波空投。

So in general, uh, we’re live in season two now. Season two started I think March 16th, March 17th, maybe Saturday. We are live in season two now, season two will go until June 30th. 

所以总的来说，呃，我们现在正在播第二季。第二季开始时间是 3 月 16 日、3 月 17 日，也许是星期六。我们现在正在直播第二季，第二季将持续到 6 月 30 日。

Stake Rank is the new thing. Basically if you stay for a period of time you get like a bigger multiplier on your points and it kind of goes forward from there.

权益等级是新事物。基本上，如果你停留一段时间，你的积分就会得到更大的乘数，并且从那时起它就会继续下去。

Yeah, season two is totally focused on Stake Rank. We’ve been very public that it ends June 30th, five percent of the ETHFI will be given to the second airdrop. 

是的，第二季完全专注于赌注排名。我们非常公开地表示，将于 6 月 30 日结束，5% 的 ETHFI 将用于第二次空投。

Tell us where Ether.fi is going next? 

告诉我们 Ether.fi 下一步将走向何方？

We want to have all your operations. Like whenever you have ETH, if you want to be long ETH and you want to transact with ETH, we want you to be able to come with Ether.fi.

我们希望拥有您的所有业务。就像您拥有 ETH 时一样，如果您想做多 ETH 并想用 ETH 进行交易，我们希望您能够使用 Ether.fi。

So if you think about a traditional bank account, they have a checking account, a savings account, an investment account. For us, we started with the savings account. And so that’s staking and restaking. That’s Ether.fi Stake – the main core product that we have.

因此，如果你考虑一下传统的银行账户，他们有支票账户、储蓄账户和投资账户。对于我们来说，我们从储蓄账户开始。这就是质押和重新质押。这就是 Ether.fi Stake——我们拥有的主要核心产品。

I think it’s going to be the way that a lot of people start to get on board with Ether.fi. You know, we continue to add about 25 to 30,000 ETH a day to the protocol. So deposits are still going on. If you want to use Ether.fi, you just go to the app, connect your wallet, put in ETH, deposit ETH and you’ll get ETH back. 

我认为这将是很多人开始加入 Ether.fi 的方式。你知道，我们每天继续向协议添加大约 25 到 30,000 ETH。所以存款仍在继续。如果你想使用 Ether.fi，你只需进入应用程序，连接你的钱包，存入 ETH，存入 ETH，你就会取回 ETH。

When you do that, you start earning Ether.fi points, EigenLayer points, ETH staking rewards, and then also the ability to interact within DeFi. Fast forward, when points are no longer a thing, you start earning ETH staking rewards, restaking rewards, and then you also maintain your composability to mess around in DeFi. So Ether.fi Stake is the first one we did.

当您这样做时，您将开始赚取 Ether.fi 积分、EigenLayer 积分、ETH 质押奖励，以及在 DeFi 中进行交互的能力。快进，当积分不再重要时，你开始赚取 ETH 质押奖励、重新质押奖励，然后你还可以保持你的可组合性，在 DeFi 中闲逛。所以 Ether.fi Stake 是我们做的第一个项目。

Ether.fi Liquid went live two weeks ago. We are now the largest vault on Ethereum. So it’s about 340 million I think right now. But basically you can deploy to DeFi with two clicks. You go in, you connect your wallet, you put your eETH into Liquid, it gets captured and it gets deployed. We work with small expert advisors and Seven Seas and that gets deployed into strategies.

Ether.fi Liquid 两周前上线。我们现在是以太坊上最大的金库。所以我认为现在大约是 3.4 亿。但基本上你只需点击两下就可以部署到 DeFi。你进去，连接你的钱包，把你的 eETH 放入 Liquid，它被捕获并被部署。我们与小型专家顾问和七大洋合作，并将其部署到战略中。

There’s six different strategies that get deployed into Balancer, Uniswap, Pendle, I’m drawing a blank on the other ones right now, but anyway you can just go and see the strategies that they’re deployed into and you start collecting returns. Right now I think it’s 25% yield, you also get 2x Ether.fi points if you’re in Liquid. So if you’re trying to play the points game for season two, Liquid is definitely your game.

Balancer、Uniswap、Pendle 中部署了六种不同的策略，我现在对其他策略一无所知，但无论如何，你可以去查看它们部署的策略，然后开始收集回报。现在我认为收益率是 25%，如果你在 Liquid，你还会获得 2x Ether.fi 积分。因此，如果你想玩第二季的积分游戏，Liquid 绝对是你的游戏。

Just go take a look it’s Ether.fi and then just click on the Liquid tab and you can deploy there. Start earning APY and then start earning your points multiplier as well. Very bullish on Ether.fi Liquid. We’re going to be coming out with more vaults as well. So we’re going to have a market neutral vault. We’re also going to have something that’s like a high risk vault. So we’re going to have different vaults that are going to be coming out here as well, which is exciting.

只需查看 Ether.fi，然后单击 Liquid 选项卡即可在那里部署。开始赚取 APY，然后也开始赚取积分乘数。非常看好 Ether.fi Liquid。我们还将推出更多的金库。所以我们将拥有一个市场中立的金库。我们还将拥有类似高风险金库之类的东西。所以我们也会有不同的金库出现在这里，这是令人兴奋的。

And then the other thing that we’re building is Ether.fi Cash. You’ll have a physical credit card that you can transact with. And transact on a day-to-day basis.

我们正在构建的另一件事是 Ether.fi Cash。您将拥有一张可以用来进行交易的实体信用卡。并进行日常交易。

We’re working on it now. I guess it’s three to six months out. Ether.fi Cash, Ether.fi Stake, Ether.fi Liquid – it’s like you’re checking savings and investment accounts is basically what you want to do.

我们现在正在努力。我想还有三到六个月的时间。 Ether.fi 现金、Ether.fi 股权、Ether.fi 液体 – 就像您在检查储蓄和投资账户一样，这基本上就是您想要做的。

So it’s a kind of bankless society, right?

所以这是一种无银行的社会，对吧？

Totally. This is like literally the journey to going bankless through Ether.fi. Liquid is going super well. You know, we’ve shown that we can execute on these products. The next one is Cash. So if we execute well on Cash literally the journey to being bankless has started and is in motion.

完全。这就像通过 Ether.fi 实现无银行之旅。液体进展非常顺利。你知道，我们已经证明我们可以在这些产品上执行。下一个是现金。因此，如果我们在现金方面执行得好，那么无银行之旅就已经开始并正在进行中。

That’s impressive. And now a few final questions. What do you think we should expect from the industry in the short and long term? 

这很让人佩服。现在还有几个最后的问题。您认为我们对这个行业的短期和长期期望是什么？

I think the biggest thing we need to do is just two things. We need to work on our vocabulary. The words that we use in crypto are so hard for a normal person to understand. And until we get things more mainstream, like I just think we’re going to have challenges like onboarding people. 

我认为我们需要做的最重要的事情只有两件事。我们需要加强我们的词汇量。我们在加密货币中使用的词语对于普通人来说很难理解。在我们让事情变得更加主流之前，我认为我们将面临诸如入职人员之类的挑战。

I think that’s super super important for us to onboard the next amount of people because right now there’s a million people in a million wallets that are changing and they’re all going after the same things.

我认为这对于我们吸引下一批人来说非常非常重要，因为现在有一百万人的钱包正在发生变化，他们都在追求同样的事情。

The second thing that I think we need to do is think about real use cases and start building real use cases. Getting away from the casino and building real use cases, like how do you generate real returns, how do you have real economic activity, right, like thinking through those things and really trying to get them through. 

我认为我们需要做的第二件事是考虑真实的用例并开始构建真实的用例。远离赌场，构建真实的用例，比如如何产生真正的回报，如何进行真正的经济活动，对吧，比如思考这些事情并真正努力实现它们。

Part of crypto will always be the gambling town and the casino. That’s part of what makes it fun. I love the meme coins. But really the crux of it is you need utility and you need to get that utility of DeFi out in the open. People need to understand where the returns are coming from, where the money is coming from. And thinking through those use cases and kind of taking the next thing.

加密货币的一部分永远是赌博小镇和赌场。这就是它的乐趣所在。我喜欢模因硬币。但真正的关键是你需要实用性，并且你需要公开 DeFi 的实用性。人们需要了解回报从何而来，资金从何而来。思考这些用例并采取下一步行动。

So I’m super excited about what’s being built on Ethereum. I’m super excited about where the crypto industry is going. I’ve never been more bullish on it. But it’s so focused for me on this part of, you know, exactly where we’re going. And how do we get the next 20 million, 100 million, billion people on board with crypto?

所以我对以太坊上正在构建的东西感到非常兴奋。我对加密行业的发展方向感到非常兴奋。我从未如此看好它。但对我来说，它非常专注于我们要去的地方的这一部分。我们如何让接下来的 2000 万、1 亿、10 亿人使用加密货币？

Yeah, that’s ambition. You said that you were introduced to crypto in 2012. And I should ask, it was kind of a traditional question from back then, from interviews. If you met Satoshi Nakamoto, if you had an opportunity to ask him a question or tell him something, what would it be?

是的，这就是野心。你说你是在 2012 年接触加密货币的。我应该问，这是当时采访中的一个传统问题。如果你遇到中本聪，如果你有机会问他一个问题或告诉他一件事，你会说什么？

Well done! I just don’t think it’s well done, I think everything about it is so cool.

做得好！我只是不认为它做得很好，我认为它的一切都很酷。

Like the fact that Satoshi is still anonymous and the fact that this system has been built and is actually now like a viable alternative is just so cool. I think Bitcoin plays this role like it was the first thing. I think Ethereum is the evolution of it being a program of a blockchain. Is what you actually need to make the whole system work. 

就像中本聪仍然是匿名的事实，以及这个系统已经建成并且现在实际上就像一个可行的替代方案一样，这真是太酷了。我认为比特币扮演着这个角色，就像它是第一件事一样。我认为以太坊是它作为区块链程序的演变。是让整个系统正常工作所实际需要的。

But Bitcoin was the entry into that – kind of think of it like gold was the entry into the currency. And then these modern institutions have taken it to the next level and built their fiat kingdoms the way they have. It’s just amazing. 

但比特币是其中的入口——可以把它想象成黄金是货币的入口。然后这些现代机构将其提升到了一个新的水平，并按照自己的方式建立了自己的法定王国。这真是太棒了。

I bet you if you went back 15 years and talked to Satoshi and said to him “Hey, here’s where Bitcoin is now”, he’d be like “Damn, that’s pretty impressive”.

我敢打赌，如果你回到 15 年前，与中本聪交谈并对他说“嘿，这就是比特币现在的情况”，他会说“该死，这真是令人印象深刻”。